An Amazing Update

Apparently my post yesterday upset someone: this morning I had an automated please moderate email for my personal site (which is almost dead: apparently Mr Amazing couldn’t bring himself to post here even though this site gets a lot more action).

Since I’m on the backup box right now and the password for my personal site is the one that I forgot to add to the password database, rather than futz around trying to break into my own website, I’m going to quote the entire thing here.

Ms. Paulk,

you asked for “demands” to be sent directly to you, so I will comply:

It is my considered belief that Sad Puppies can help repair the divide within fandom by taking two actions:
1. make your SPIV recommendation list a real recommendation list, similar to others that are perceived as recommendation lists (as opposed to slates) by dropping your final stage of compiling a “top ten”.
2. make it clear that Sad Puppies are not aligned with Rabid Puppies.

You and other Sad Puppies have repeatedly claimed that your lists are recommendations (‘like what Scalzi does every year’).  However, they are not once you add that final stage of endorsement.  Drop that final stage and no reasonable person would consider it anything other than what you claim you want it to be.

You and other Sad Puppies have also claimed that SP and Rabid Puppies are not one and the same, yet we see plenty of commentary that strongly suggests otherwise.  A statement by the leaders of SP IV  to the contrary would go a long way.

Those are the two things that I believe would place Sad Puppies in a far better position in regards to acceptance within fandom as a whole.  Doing those two things would lend far greater credence to your other arguments vis-a-vis the field.

Steve

Apparently Steve has reading comprehension issues. I invite readers to consider what I posted yesterday, and compare it to Steve’s demands.

And, just so there is no doubt about any of this: Sarah, Amanda, and I will be doing exactly what I said we were doing in yesterday’s post. We will not accede to anyone’s demands. We will not prevent anyone from making recommendations. We will not associate ourselves with any other group and we will not dissociate ourselves from any other group. We are compiling a list of the works people think are the best in their class and eligible for the 2016 Hugo Awards. Nothing more and nothing less.

That is all.

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18 thoughts on “An Amazing Update

  1. Of course, he imagines that his “opinion” means anything to us and means anything to FANDOM.

    Even if Kate (and other Sad Puppies) do what he wants them to do, the Hatred from “his side” will continue no matter what he “thinks”.

  2. As im sure most here would agree. I find it funny this irrelevant gatekeeper has any demands whatsoever. I welcome the simpering toadie being blown into further irrelevance and obscurity.

  3. Wait – last year was a slate because it was five books. This year is a slate because the top ten will be easier to view than the entire list. Or is it the recommendation that makes it a slate? And what needs to be said to distance SP from RP? Since constantly stating that the two aren’t related doesn’t seem to be doing the trick. Is it because some of the people supporting RP are also supporting SP? Because I’m pretty sure that I can find Trump supporters that also think GRRM is the best thing evah, but no one will think to paint HIM with that brush.

  4. Seems like a quite self-important person to make demands as Fandom.

    Like I’ve said in the past, Fandom can do better than to be represented by someone like him.

  5. It’s going to be a slate. It needs to be a slate.

    At the end of the day, the Puppy brigade is a marketing ploy. It is used to churn up a holy war and sell books to those in the US culture war. It has no legitimate SFF purpose other then target marketing.

    The 10 books in the list will contain mainstream writers and puppy works. The idea here is to confuse the Fan but the Pups will know which five to vote for. VD won’t be disassociated because VD will help with that effort. Besides – you guys are all riding in the same car and doing the same marketing.

    I don’t know why GRRM wants to reconcile. Your numbers are tiny and with the passing of EPH your influence in the Hugo process will reflect your numbers – as it should. I think asking you to reconcile and give up your marketing gimmick makes no sense at all. GRRM sells lots of books. He doesn’t understand those of you who don’t.

      1. Pretty sure it’s the same guy, they have the same avatar. Not conclusive, but very suggestive.

        And no matter what “concerns” we address (5 v 10 for example), it will never be good enough to satisfy and in fact will encourage folks like this to invent new ones with which to smear us.

        That goes in line with the “demands” we essentially defenestrate ourselves without even *any* acknowledgement from the kickers that they may have done anything at all wrong at all.

        Our numbers aren’t tiny, but we were dispersed and defeated by a concentrated effort by the puppy-kickers like “Xenu”. That’s because we were acting like *they* claimed to be and voted for what we thought was the best in each category instead of focusing on one in each.

  6. It sounds to me that Sad Puppies won’t be evil if you dance to whatever tune he wants to play at the moment. Ah, ignore him. Not worth the hot air..

  7. I think the concern is that given an ordered list (no matter how long) the organizers could just quietly spread the word that “the top 5 are the real slate; ignore the rest.” Personally I think that’s an overreaction, but I’m sure that’s what the concern is. We get a little of that at Rocket Stack Rank, but not as much because we use buckets rather than a strict ordered list. http://www.rocketstackrank.com/search/label/Ratings

    As for SP vs. RP, I’ll admit to being one of the ones who doesn’t believe there is a real difference between the two. The reason I think that is that in online discussions I almost never see anyone say “I’m a Sad, not a Rabid” or “you’re right about the rabids, but I’m with the sads” or anything like that. In the real world, Puppies stick together, and there are not two different kinds. The occasional public statement that “we’re two different groups” doesn’t work because the reality appears to be otherwise.

    I do believe that the organizers of SP4 are not directly working with RP2. I just think they’re two different groups managing a single group of followers. To use a political analogy, Jeb Bush isn’t the same as Donald Trump, but they’re both after Republican votes.

    1. Yeah? Really?

      When the organizers from BOTH groups tell you they’re not related to one another, and you continue to snivel the same message, there’s nothing that will make you believe it.

      “I’ll state it again for emphasis: we are not Rabid. None of us wants to burn the Hugos down. We want the Hugos to live up their reputation as the preeminent award in the combined field of Science Fiction & Fantasy. We want Worldcon to be an actually diverse thing with authors and fans participating from across the spectrum, without having to worry about litmus tests or being in the correct groups. ”

      https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/we-are-not-rabid/

      Brad Torgersen ran Sad Puppies 3, and I was one of the people who helped. The mission changed, and Brad’s main goal was to get deserving, worthy authors who would normally be ignored onto the ballot, regardless of their politics.

      Brad Torgersen ran Sad Puppies 3, and I was one of the people who helped. The mission changed, and Brad’s main goal was to get deserving, worthy authors who would normally be ignored onto the ballot, regardless of their politics.

      Vox Day ran a separate campaign called Rabid Puppies.

      http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/16/im-not-vox-day/

      The Sad Puppies are not Rabid. We are.

      http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/04/of-lew-and-hugo.html

      But hey, you can continue humping the fetid carcass of “there’s no difference” until your schlong rots off. SP4 will do what they do.

    2. “The reason I think that is that in online discussions I almost never see anyone say “I’m a Sad, not a Rabid” or “you’re right about the rabids, but I’m with the sads” or anything like that.”

      Then you simply weren’t paying attention, as it was being said approx. every five minutes for nearly a year.

      Not that anyone needs to justify themselves to the intentionally oblivious…..

    3. “To use a political analogy, Jeb Bush isn’t the same as Donald Trump, but they’re both after Republican votes.”

      But the fact that Jeb Bush is after the same voters as Trump does not mean that Bush wants to build a wall on the Mexican border or ban muslims from travelling to the US.

  8. Amazing how there’s all the advice and demands on what the Puppies MUST DO to reconcile “with fandom”, yet, as far as I’ve seen, nothing at all on what the Kickers need to do, nor any recognition that the Puppies are already part of fandom.

  9. Someone has an overly high opinion of oneself, especially as they try to force their male privilege on you ladies. He also has a decided lack of reading comprehension.

  10. I think the proper respond would be along the,lines of “we don’t negotiate with terrorists.”

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